here you go!

[p schmidt]

here's my first atempt at a true "guilloche" pattren I milled this in brass (engrave path) with my homemade diamond bit I will use some ceramit and see how it looks

[jeff dunnington]

Pat

Good Job! Do you have a picture of the brass?

Did you drag the diamond without the spindle running?

[p schmidt]

not the best enameler but I tried ...I just used a sheet of brass from the hardware store ...I couldn't get the spindle to not spin

[jeff dunnington]

Pat

Here is the post with my solution to turn off the spindle.

http://www.3dwaxmill.com/phpBB2/vt.php?t=761

Looks complicated but if you follow the directions to the T it goes and works very easy.

[p schmidt]

am I supposed to reverse the proccess to turn on the spindle (turning off looks very complicated to me... I still can't load the symbols)

[p schmidt]

here's one I did on a sheet of aluminum

[p schmidt]

why do I always have problems?? here they are
shutting off spindle insrtuctions
my issues are in red
1. Open "Control Panel"
2. Open "Printers"
3. Open "Add printer" to start "Add Printer Wizard" Click Next
* Local printer click off the box Automatically detect
* Click Create a new port and select Local, click next
* In the Port Name type C:\Print to file\print.prn click next window pops up saying"system cannot find path specified" this is where I had to stop on this one* Select Manufacturer: Generic
* Select Printers: Generic/Text only Click Next
* Click Keep existing Drivers (recommended) Click next
* Name printer (Roland print to file)
* 'Use as default' select 'No' click next
* Print test page "No" click next
* Completing add printer wizard click finish




Printing to file From 3dengrave

When you are ready to cut with everything setup i.e. materials, tool settings, Layout, tool and Z height
1. Click your File menu
* Output device setup
* Select the printer (Roland print to file) click OK (only shows roland mdx-15 not roland print to file!
2. Now you can click output cutting data
3. Open your C:\ drive
4. Find the folder "print to file" Right click on it and create a shortcut and put it on your desktop (no such folder listed) this is where I gave up!
5. On your desktop open the "print to file" folder
6. Rename the print.prn file to what-ever-you-want.prn

Now we can use Kens suggestion to turn off the spindle motor.

1. Open your new .prn file using notepad or wordpad
2. Change the MC1 to MC0 and save the changes.

I would put the Rolandprint.exe that Ken posted in your "print to file" folder

[Jon]

How do you generate your "guilloche" designs?

Computer generated I presume? Software used?

[p schmidt]

I designed on rhino but you probably could use any software ...I haven't had much luck using 3d engrave to design them I did engrave them using "engrave " in 3dengrave software let me know if you need to know how to design one ..I have many

[Winstone]

Great work, I will show you how I make card faux guilloce patterns and maybe you can show us how you designed that surface in Rhino?
My method is centered around use of the Roland package of programs and programs that come with Windows.
For those of us who have Rhino, how did you make the guilloche pattern on the aliminium? Ceramit is the only way to "enamel" that metal as it melts prior to real glass enamel gets liquid!!! Modern materials require meodern products!
My grandfather was an engineer. He had a ring in a safe deposit box that he paid several thousand dollars for in the 1890's. When we went to the box to recover this rare treasure, it was made of pure aliminium which was discovered in Canada in a pure metallic state. winstone

[Jon]

You said: "I designed on rhino but you probably could use any software ...I haven't had much luck using 3d engrave to design them I did engrave them using "engrave " in 3dengrave software let me know if you need to know how to design one ..I have many "

Yes - would be interested in learning how you designed the patterns in Rhino (I use Rhino 4.0). Can you send me (or post here) some of th 3DM files, and maybe tell me which Rhino commands you used?

[Winstone]

Jon,
I did something quite simple. I made use of those tools already at my fingertips. You can do this in Windows Paint quite easily. Using the different fonts available I have been playing with the computer keyboard to generate faux guilloche patterns.
Here is an example. Under the two vertical dash mark is the slash back symbol "\" and under the ? is the slash foward symbol "/" Using different
fonts one can create a run of faux lines \/\/\/\/\/\/\/ these are a combination of slash foward and slash backward. In different fonts you get different effects for the same pattern.
In a simple Windows Paint program you can edit the result and paste it on itself as a transparant model. Then copy the group and paste the group to build say an image 7 across and 7 deep then save the group as
a bmp. I include the font name Ariel/\8a meaning "Ariel" TTF - / \ symbols used, 8 for year and a for subgroup or a short index format of Ariel8a.bmp which is used in my master faux guilloche pattern book for
this zigzag pattern basic style. If I make a group then the code is Ariel8a7
I load the pattern into 3de and use it to make a faux guilloche in the background of a piece either as a cutin or raise up. I have been experimenting with other characters and symbols from my keyboard, but the variety does not stop there, how about names in lower case, or combinations of symbols? or names cut apart and symbols, or phrases, or foreign words as we also have the ability to use other languages with the keyboard. I hope that this helps you. Maybe you can find some interesting patterns as well, the possibilities are infinite for one person, if we share ideas, then the workload is shared and we all benefit. winstone

[p schmidt]

winston using your thought here's what I came up with using a old spirograh to create the patterns (you can buy these on ebay) although I bought the "big" set (rare)you could get buy buying the small set just a sample of what can be done you can then pipe them or use other tecniques to create solid
done in rhino using the "sketch"command
(for those of you whom haven't seen them before)

[p schmidt]

sorry jon I just read your post here's how to make one in rhino
1. I used "multiple points command" and laid out my spacing
2.then curve command / interpolate points (points on in osnap)
3. create your curved line by connecting the points
4.then copy the line (snap/ortho on) move over whatever you want I did 1mm
5. repeat as many as needed
you can use any type line you want to
here's a capture for you (use "select points" to highlight all points so you can delete them all at once after you make your first line)

[Winstone]

Jon and Paul,
First Jon,
Paul has the right idea with Rhino, but I would make a more open curve so that I could make small drops in the second line. Turning the curve on its side is close to the faux G cut. Then the next curved line moves ever so slightly down which is allowed with an open lazy curved line.

The \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ line was my attempt to mimic the lines in the aliminium plate that Paul made with symbols off of my computer keyboard.

On my 1845 G machine is gig that moves the cutter in fractions of an inch or in parts of a milimeter to make the offset lines. If a cam machine were available to Fabrege', no doubt he would have made use of it.
There is a dual action, first the G machine rocks back and forth making the wavy line to cut, and second the gig that moves the cutter off line can be set to an exact cut.

To make a work around in a program can be done by eye, or as a program loop. Earlier cnc machines use a language called pbasic. One can also take a pbasic loop and program it to run cnc machine code. The nearest I have come is with mechanical means using a series of card patterns. I got the idea from my wife's Bernina sewing machine which uses templates to create complex lace patterns on childrens clothing.

Another way is to copy a pattern like \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ turn it 90 degrees
then strech the pattern with my mouse then paste it down, copy it and save the copy as a potential master, then with that single master make a series of pastes that looks like the G cut.

Next Paul,
The serograph on the Wacom pad is a great idea. I have not tried such patterns, but know that there are monies of the world that use this form of pattern as a way to prevent forgeries.

As a design element. I have a small Wacom and will put some of the card templates on it. Also, the MDX-15 can cut some very precise template masters. We can also cut them in plastic, but sheets of green wax will do nicely. The key is to protect them.

This is where a group of clever miller guys and gals can join the fun,
we could make a series of templates that we could strech and play with so that we could all be on the same page.

Guys- Jon and Paul
I know that with the help of Jeff and this forum we will be able to come close or exceed the properties of my G machine. The ideas presented have brought the G art to our forum.

I have a friend who was in MI-5 or its predicessor in England when the plane that Hess flew to England. The Brits took the plane apart, then they made photo copies of all the parts or silouettes of the parts. Kind of like a 2 color bmp. They then measured these parts to scale and reduced them into mini working models in wood, because they had a lot of master furniture makers who made models for the WWII effort.

Other parts were sent to machinists to see the wear and tear, and still others to India where the bulk of English War effort lathe work was being done. [ Have you ever wonder why so many jeweler's tools come out of India?]

I have the antique G machine, I have thought of doing much the same.
take off the design wheels, make a template digitally against a light box
then reduce the size to be made into a pattern that could be milled with the MDX-15.

Reverse engineering is another way to accomplish this. In a few days I will post a PDF on the subject in my FTP file for all of you interested souls to download.

Reverse engineering is a short cut, I would rather experiment with knowledge of what is happening, and find solutions that utilize our Roland mills and programs. We should take the G art form and push it further than the old G machines could do.

My Studio here in Dallas was about 4 short blocks from Robert Whiteside, then he moved to Inwood road another two blocks away. I met him through one of my patrons. Rob was a mild man, but a very creative self taught artisan. He had independent wealth, and would go to Europe to work in workshops of well known metal smiths. Rob was close to some of Dallas hairdressers and stylists. These single men would often escort wives of wealthy oil men on holiday. As they had no interest in women, these ladies and lasses were safe in their care.

Rob and I would join efforts to buy French lead enamels, and other items that were not available here in the USA. Rob often made copies of Fabrege' objects only his were stamped with his name. They were better made, stronger, and had innovations that the Moscow Store of Fabrege' never attempted or prefected. I have seen similar work done by Cartier,
but nothing like the double G patterns of Whiteside. This work predated computer cad\cam, so I can only wonder what Rob could have done had he lived. winstone